Anatol Lieven: The discussion highlights a dystopian shift in modern naval combat, where the Russian ghost fleet employs Mad Max tactics, using netting and spikes, to defend against Ukrainian drone attacks. Anatol Lieven describes a global spread of drone

Anatol Lieven: The discussion highlights a dystopian shift in modern naval combat, where the Russian ghost fleet employs Mad Max tactics, using netting and spikes, to defend against Ukrainian drone attacks. Anatol Lieven describes a global spread of drone technology that threatens energy prices and international stability. Both Russia and Ukraine suffer from the illusion of an imminent total victory, despite a grinding stalemate in which Russia holds a stronger economic position because of its self-funded war effort while Ukraine remains dependent on precarious European aid. Lieven warns of a potential sea war escalation if Russia retaliates against the seizure of its ships, potentially drawing NATO and the US into a direct naval clash. The conversation also touches on British politics, noting that Prime Minister Andy Burnham faces immense pressure regarding immigration and military spending despite his desire to focus on domestic issues. (1)